home
***
CD-ROM
|
disk
|
FTP
|
other
***
search
/
Columbia Kermit
/
kermit.zip
/
newsgroups
/
misc.20000114-20000217
/
000163_news@columbia.edu _Thu Jan 27 16:58:14 2000.msg
< prev
next >
Wrap
Internet Message Format
|
2020-01-01
|
19KB
Return-Path: <news@columbia.edu>
Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30])
by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05456
for <kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu>; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:58:13 -0500 (EST)
Received: (from news@localhost)
by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA15309
for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:39:53 -0500 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to <news> using -f
From: not-2-disclose@the.net
Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities
Message-ID: <012700162238not-2-disclose@the.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:39:43 GMT
Organization: Sympatico
To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu
Hi Joe,
Still about "MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities" of January 26!... you
can refer to past postings of January 1 (19h00), 4 (10h39), 5 (8h53), 7
(10h54), 13 (11h46), 17 (15h32), 17 (18h08), 17 (20h05), 18 (12h06) and
18 (21h34), including your latest message from January 25:
JRD> Stop accusing people. Then please understand...
Oh my, i guess i should feel so bad... for not having any remorse after
i sent you this post of mine, yersterday! So, do you find any occurance
of the "jrd@" string at all, in my ~ISP~'s listing, or what?!... 8^o I
seen a number of header references related to kermit.misc@columbia.edu,
i suppose that's the start of an explanation as to why other people were
reading you, not me... How's that for a guy who needs to understand the
inner workings? Right now, i *STILL* have to go to Columbia's site for
grabing any post written by you! %-7 Why's that so??? :^o
JRD> Zmodem isn't in the works for MS-DOS Kermit. I've said that
JRD> several times now. Nor will port 25 to be opened... Have i not
JRD> shown that i understood the first time when i expressed my regret?
JRD> Why do you insist in repeating yourself like this?!
What's wrong with you people?!? Just look at how you put your replies:
"Zmodem isn't in the works..." is no indication whatsoever that it WON'T
BE in the future! Hence, don't be surprized if a DOS BBS user comes at
you a few times, wishing to discuss the alternatives: those still seem
to be possible options so far, ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN WRITING! Surely, i
DID gather from the context that `ZMoDem' just happens to be an absolute
"No-Go" for the `MS-Kermit' team, but you only write that `ZmoDem' isn't
in your plans for the DOS version (Jan. 1 & 17)!... At the same time, i
have this reply: "i hope that in this particular thread the MSK source
code is now in hand and being scrutinized for local embellishment."!
Gosh! In this post to which you just replied, did i fail to make myself
clear by typing "The only thing that remains to be seen is as to wether
or not we'll ever find the latest `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta 8' source-code
anywhere on INet..."! :^o And this IS NOT the first time i ask!!! :-7
Moreover, on Jan. 17, you wrote that "Those with an interest in systems
work may wish to dig/wade in for personal curiosity." but the `MS-Kermit
v3.16 Beta 8' source-code is still to be found, actually! Are the users
supposed to scrutinize and embellish the old 3.15 version instead?! %-o
So, how dare you complain because i "insist in repeating" myself when it
is quite evident that you and the others twisted a few thing yourselves,
hey?! Haven't i *BODLY* established that i like "legacy" machines, from
the very start? Nonetheless, it didn't prevent you from posting me this
sort of response: "486 and Pentium motherboards are basically free for
the asking from just about everywhere, memory included." (Jan. 1)!!! :(
When i explain why `Kermit' alone doesn't allow to transfer files from a
variety of BBSes, you just applaused at this blatant argument that your
`MS-Kermit' protocol is "as fast and a lot more robust and clever than
x/y/zmodem protocols." (still, Jan. 1)! Oh? But what good does it do?!
When i wrote about my thought of using a ~TelNet~ "shim" which `Kermit'
and an external `ZMoDem' protocol would share, you served me "UPGRADE!",
*AGAIN*: "The intrinsic speed of MSK is basically set by the cpu in the
machine. We've tested it to half a MB/sec over regular Ethernet as full
Kermit protocol file transfers with a 100MHz Pentium processor. The cpu
part is a problem at 4.77MHz... So again, grab a surplus motherboard."!
How could you miss the *clear* mentions i made, from the very begining:
"I introduce myself, i'm a DOS_InterNet user and spent about the last
two years lurking/participating to the same-name echo of the `FidoNet'
amateur messaging network. Since the last four years or so i looked for
DOS INet FreeWare/ShareWare programs... TO UPGRADE THE HARDWARE or to
switch to protocols like ~FTP~/~HTTP~ *IS NOT* an option."! Ho! And a
few line below, wasn't it apparent that i've explored this topic before,
enumerating the ~TelNet~ "shims" i've tried so far?: "`INT14', `Net14',
`TCPPort', `TelAPI', `TNGlass' (`RLFossil' too..."!!! 8-o I guess not,
since you simply made a comment about some 100 MHz Pentium equiped PC!!!
Put frankly, i didn't seem to be understood so well, the first time, and
that's the reason why i seem to repeat myself again and again and again!
I sure wrote about having the equivalent D/L cps rate of a 9k6/19K2 bps
connection, i did not write that i couldn't have it done at all!... As
a matter of fact, i posted a reply to Frank where i explained him that i
already have had ".ZIP-file DownLoads of about 431 cps (D/L to a remote
~RAMDisk~ via `InterLink'", using `MS-Kermit' on an old 8088 4,77 Mhz PC
which had only 512 Kb ~RAM~ memory and one 3.5"/720 Kb diskette drive...
The ~UART~ wasn't even buffered (a 8250-like hardware emulation) and the
MoDem was reporting a computer-MoDem "CONNECT" rate of 9K6 bps - a kind
of performance which i attributed to the DIRECT packet-driver interface
from which `MS-Kermit' could gather its data. Later, i added to this a
mention about having "almost 4K cps with my 386-16 Mhz PC in a ~TelNet~
session" (and i even wrote Frank that i discovered `Kermit', for the 1st
time, when i bought my Hewlett Packard `HP-48' calculator, around 1991).
Again, it did not prevent you from serving the "64KB buys little room to
do "big" things." argument to my friend Charles, on January 5! At best,
he'd get this observation that "The MSK code is designed to work solidly
with Packet Drivers and Novell's ODI drivers." and "It's not a series of
approximations. It is robust by design.". OKay, it's doing fine. Now,
why the fuss: "...MSK isn't intended to be "someone else's TCP/IP stack
because we can't do it ourselves and thus want it done for free by some
poor sod."!... Ho! But this business about a ~FOSSIL~ extension hardly
relates to a ~TCP~/~IP~ stack for such "poor sod", might i add!... 8-o
Hummm...
That one wasn't to be unnoticed neither: "I am open to discussions on
providing an efficient transport layer blob, as I crudely describe this
approach, but only on a prepaid contract basis. The same applies to
existing BBS software: the Kermit protocol implementation could be made
better. If serious then please contact me directly with formal
specifics; it won't be cheap." (January 18)...
WOW! This little topic of ours - of me and Charles - was merely related
to "embellishment" done by providing a way to add some existing *PUBLIC
DOMAIN* `ZMoDem' EXTERNAL protocol! Nothing in the scope you described!
(Yes, i took note of your objection of January 18 where you expre$$ your
concern$ about "licensing fees to Omen Tech Inc")... Anyway. Euh... I
take that you won't remember this "embellishment" word of yours, hey?...
Ho! And you need to write that you're no "reactionary grouch"... Fine!
:(
Here is another hilarious one: "...there are alternatives which do or
can be made to work satisfactorily. Further, there are alternatives of
basic approach which obviate dealing with BBS software and 8088 class
machines; millions of people use them daily. With that I think the
matter has been explored here as far as it needs to be."! 8-o Ho! la!
La! That's all you could come up with? Ever heard of `GLink r6.1.5'?
:^o
Just like Charles wrote; yes, i heard this theory that anything with a
big enough engine will fly! Euh... And any "poor sod" can buy its way
into the InterNet as well... 8-o
Dear professor. If you need to say "no", why just don't you put it in
two or three short sentences like: "No, the `MS-Kermit' Beta team ISN'T
and WILL NOT add the `ZMoDem' feature - BUY the `Window$ 95' version!",
not just "...MSK does not support *modem file transfers." like you wrote
to Jonathan Graham Harston on August 23, 1999 (it implies "as of now").
A twisted reality, that's what you live in. Did any of us question your
choice of `MASM v6.11' for an assembler? No. Not me, that's for sure!
I seen, from previous post, that you had users who wrote about "this is
how I poll my franchises every night", "here is how I control my milling
machines", "here is how I submit pharmaceutical insurance claims to the
formulary", "here is how I check all my network boxes and send pages
when something's amiss" (Frank, Oct. 27, 1999)... Why do you expect one
to be unable to cope with his ~SMTP~ server and manage the mail when we
read that a guy, out there, used `Kermit' to control a milling machine?!
8-o
[...]
JRD> To decode your script problems I suggest first reducing the number
JRD> of items in it, and try each piece one at a time...
Oh... Have i neglected to write you that i started learning `Kermit's
scripting/macro language only at the end of the late fall? 8-o And now
i suppose i'm expected to know it all?!? %-7 Take a look at `{Commo}',
you might find out that everything hasn't been said yet...
[...]
MS> My writing about `MS-Kermit' being more performant at DownLoads than
MS> any DOS ~BIOS INT-14~ and/or ~FOSSIL~-capable terminal emulator also
MS> implied that... ...little else (but `Conex') seemed to have an
MS> INTEGRATED packet-driver interface & ~TelNet~ protocol. Actualy, my
MS> opinion was that `MS-Kermit' has an advantage... ...it circumvents
MS> the need for a DOS ~BIOS INT-14~ and/or ~FOSSIL~... Such topic is
MS> quite remote from any of your comments on code swiftness; i merely
MS> refered to a speed limitation which is a consequence of the ~BIOS
MS> INT-14~ and/or ~FOSSIL~ interfaces. ...just keep in mind that this
MS> sort of terminal emulator DOES allow for `ZMoDem'/`Kermit' file
MS> transfers in ~TelNet~ sessions... ...many popular programs offer
MS> that interface: amongst those, we find `Anzio Net v11.4w',
MS> `Communiqu� v2.10', `Deputy v3.09' and `Odyssey v2.00'. An other
MS> terminal emulator which includes the very same feature but no
MS> `ZMoDem' protocol is `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta', of course... As far as
MS> i'm concerned, i'm inclined to believe that almost anything is
MS> possible until there's proof of the contrary...
JRD> ...but the speed problems you are concerned about are most likely
JRD> due to the simplistic implementation of the Kermit protocol in the
JRD> BBS systems you contact.
Oh boy! You're not paying too much attention are you?!... 8-o Is this
about `Kermit' transfers alone or didn't i include the `ZMoDem' protocol
in the picture?... I tried to explain that the DOS ~BIOS INT-14~ and/or
~FOSSIL~ trail leads to using programs in which the `ZMoDem' protocol IS
NOT TAKING ADVANTAGE of a DIRECT packet-driver interface (nor a ~TelNet~
protocol!), which is possible in `MS-Kermit'. THAT speed limitation is
not a consequence of the remote BBS system at all, it's simply a result
of the situation i've exposed above!!! Simply put, i don't care so much
about the identity of the protocol but i do care about what's available
on the BBS, for starters; hence, my need to IMPROVE my use of `ZMoDem',
something my friend Charles already done to some extent.
Charles and myself we believe that an internal `ZMoDem' protocol inside
`MS-Kermit' would make it a better terminal emulator for calling BBSes;
you don't and that's all there is to it, i'm afraid! :(
JRD> At some point your 8088 machine runs out of cpu cycles and the
JRD> floppy drive remains slow.
A floppy? Find me a single reference about DownLoading to a "floppy" in
any of my posts!!! I'll deal with my floppy, thanks for your concern...
[...]
JRD> Lastly, we have pointed you to the source code more than once.
JRD> I did so on my machines: try netlab2.usu.edu, directory kermit.
JRD> Try netlab1.usu.edu, directory pub/mirror/kermit.
I started asking about the source-code as soon as January 4, i continued
trying more than once... I'm well equiped enough for browsing the ~WEB~
and accessing an ~FTP~ site and i keep telling you that i can't seem to
find the latest `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta' source-code - you keep pretending
that everything is there! Well, i peeked at the files i could get and i
still see no mention of the source-code for the 3.16 version whatsoever:
************************************************************************
/KERMIT
Sep 17 1997 zip MSK315.ZIP 479 Kb
Oct 29 1999 text/plain MSK316.CHG 6 Kb
May 6 1999 msdos-program MSK316B7.EXE 250 Kb
Oct 14 1999 msdos-program MSK316B8.EXE 250 Kb
Mar 2 1991 text/plain MSVIBM.TEK 35 Kb
Mar 9 1998 text/plain MSVIBM.VT 72 Kb
Jan 18 14:46 Directory SOURCE
/KERMIT/SOURCE
Aug 3 1997 text/plain MSGIBM.ASM 237 Kb
Jul 15 1996 text/plain MSK315.LNK 233 bytes
Jul 5 1996 text/plain MSK315.MAK 3 Kb
Sep 4 1997 text/x-csrc MSNARP.C 14 Kb
Sep 5 1997 text/x-csrc MSNBTP.C 17 Kb
Sep 5 1997 text/x-csrc MSNDNS.C 16 Kb
Sep 2 1997 text/x-csrc MSNICM.C 8 Kb
Jan 3 1997 text/x-csrc MSNLIB.C 7 Kb
Jan 3 1997 text/x-chdr MSNLIB.H 2 Kb
May 19 1997 text/plain MSNPDI.ASM 64 Kb
Apr 12 1997 text/x-csrc MSNPKT.C 6 Kb
Apr 12 1997 text/x-csrc MSNSED.C 4 Kb
Sep 4 1997 text/x-csrc MSNTCP.C 71 Kb
Jan 3 1997 text/x-chdr MSNTCP.H 11 Kb
Sep 4 1997 text/x-csrc MSNTND.C 35 Kb
Apr 6 1997 text/plain MSNTNI.ASM 25 Kb
Jan 3 1997 text/plain MSNUT1.ASM 21 Kb
Aug 30 1997 text/plain MSSCMD.ASM 146 Kb
Sep 8 1997 text/plain MSSCOM.ASM 61 Kb
Sep 15 1997 text/x-chdr MSSDEF.H 21 Kb
Aug 12 1997 text/plain MSSFIL.ASM 114 Kb
Sep 15 1997 text/plain MSSKER.ASM 106 Kb
Sep 11 1997 text/plain MSSRCV.ASM 47 Kb
Sep 10 1997 text/plain MSSSCP.ASM 89 Kb
Sep 6 1997 text/plain MSSSEN.ASM 80 Kb
Sep 8 1997 text/plain MSSSER.ASM 85 Kb
Sep 5 1997 text/plain MSSSET.ASM 138 Kb
Sep 6 1997 text/plain MSSSHO.ASM 98 Kb
Aug 30 1997 text/plain MSSTER.ASM 76 Kb
May 7 1997 text/plain MSUIBM.ASM 79 Kb
Sep 15 1997 text/plain MSXIBM.ASM 253 Kb
Sep 15 1997 text/plain MSYIBM.ASM 255 Kb
Aug 15 1997 text/plain MSZIBM.ASM 366 Kb
Dec 24 1999 Directory TEST
/KERMIT/SOURCE/TEST
(empty)
/pub/mirror/kermit
Sep 17 1997 zip msk315.zip 479 Kb
Oct 29 21:18 text/plain msk316.chg 6 Kb
May 6 1999 msdos-program msk316b7.exe 250 Kb
Oct 14 18:01 msdos-program msk316b8.exe 250 Kb
Mar 2 1991 text/plain msvibm.tek 35 Kb
Mar 9 1998 text/plain msvibm.vt 72 Kb
Jan 18 21:46 Directory source
/pub/mirror/kermit/source
Aug 3 1997 text/plain msgibm.asm 237 Kb
Jul 16 1996 text/plain msk315.lnk 233 bytes
Jul 5 1996 text/plain msk315.mak 3 Kb
Sep 4 1997 text/x-csrc msnarp.c 14 Kb
Sep 6 1997 text/x-csrc msnbtp.c 17 Kb
Sep 6 1997 text/x-csrc msndns.c 16 Kb
Sep 2 1997 text/x-csrc msnicm.c 8 Kb
Jan 3 1997 text/x-csrc msnlib.c 7 Kb
Jan 3 1997 text/x-chdr msnlib.h 2 Kb
May 19 1997 text/plain msnpdi.asm 64 Kb
Apr 12 1997 text/x-csrc msnpkt.c 6 Kb
Apr 12 1997 text/x-csrc msnsed.c 4 Kb
Sep 4 1997 text/x-csrc msntcp.c 71 Kb
Jan 3 1997 text/x-chdr msntcp.h 11 Kb
Sep 4 1997 text/x-csrc msntnd.c 35 Kb
Apr 7 1997 text/plain msntni.asm 25 Kb
Jan 3 1997 text/plain msnut1.asm 21 Kb
Aug 30 1997 text/plain msscmd.asm 146 Kb
Sep 9 1997 text/plain msscom.asm 61 Kb
Sep 16 1997 text/x-chdr mssdef.h 21 Kb
Aug 12 1997 text/plain mssfil.asm 114 Kb
Sep 16 1997 text/plain mssker.asm 106 Kb
Sep 11 1997 text/plain mssrcv.asm 47 Kb
Sep 10 1997 text/plain mssscp.asm 89 Kb
Sep 6 1997 text/plain msssen.asm 80 Kb
Sep 9 1997 text/plain mssser.asm 85 Kb
Sep 6 1997 text/plain mssset.asm 138 Kb
Sep 6 1997 text/plain msssho.asm 98 Kb
Aug 30 1997 text/plain msster.asm 76 Kb
May 7 1997 text/plain msuibm.asm 79 Kb
Sep 15 1997 text/plain msxibm.asm 253 Kb
Sep 15 1997 text/plain msyibm.asm 255 Kb
Aug 15 1997 text/plain mszibm.asm 366 Kb
Dec 24 13:10 Directory test
/pub/mirror/kermit/source/test
(empty)
************************************************************************
If you pay attention to the dates, the only elements which are from 1999
are the latest executables and a .CHG text-file, not the source-code!...
As for the `test' directory which was created recently, it's dead empty.
JRD> ...I do hope you are successful this time.
In case i didn't make it thru: no, i wasn't successful this time. So,
how many times should i need to come back at you with my long messages,
trying to make the point when no effort is good enough, whatsoever? 8-o
[...]
Thanks for nothing.
Michel Samson